In WT, November 2018 study edition, the WT/ GB again plant the idea about never leaving the religion when they change Jesus’ words, as Ray Franz pointed out in his book, “Crisis of Consience”, from: “Lord, WHOM shall we go away to?” to, “WHERE else could we go??” - as though teachings of decency and love toward others should be found in them only, and in their special places, and not in a person’s own home, or school, or charitable organization, or having hearts filled with love and graciousness, and empathy, compassion.. toward others....
They take an ideology (the bible and Jehovah) and then make decrees (and commands and doctrines of men) and then bind up heavy loads...
they become Pharisees, measuring the tenth of the dill and the mint and the cumin...
and hmm, something else.... ?
... forgetting about love and mercy...?
... is this (gasp!) possible with the leaders, I mean fine examples of our faith, whom we should emulate... blah blah ... and meet at certain exact times in certain exact places wearing certain exact clothes to do certain exact same things ... ?
- is this what JESUS wanted?
He, who said, “where two or three or gathered in my name, there I am...” (a spirit of friendship, love, sharing, and oh, you know, maybe just having a spirit of being guided by LOVE, right?)
Hmm. Imagine that. Is it really so .... simple....?
... especially if...
god is ....
Love....
...
“And they bind up heavy loads upon the backs of men, teaching commands of men as doctrines...”
(but certainly not WT/ GB, right...? Not them...)
“... do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the sons of earthling man, with whom there is no salvation...”
”... and Satan himself appears like an angel of light...”
(Hm, personally, that last one is a little dramatic for me, haha, but I’ll put it out there for the seekers or questioners..)
and yes, it is okay to think and judge and ‘test out the inspired expressions” and weigh them out... (remember those Boreans? They don’t talk much about them anymore, do they?) so it’s okay to keep seeking...
... To those who are questioning, try to change your vocabulary - they always want you to improve or develop your vocabulary, don’t they? Use positive words and frame things thru a lens of love, gratitude, caring, forgiveness, etc., rather than the words they use which keep you down, which create fear, obligation, guilt... (fog)
Think of having a question as a way to continue seeking for truth,
rather than the scary, loaded, threatening language and words (seasoned with salt?) of “doubts, independent thinking, giving way to Satan, becoming murmurers, following the path of Korah...” (boy, they do go on & on and get ya, don’t they? Sheesh. 200 pages of bible compared to over 2,000 pages WT literature annually, but that was back in the day...
It would be interesting to recount and compare it now, especially in WT’s embracement of the digital age, (and which they now count as “placements in field service!) .... (so surreal) !
...the WT, back in the day, used to subject us to 3 weekly meetings (which they counted as “seven”) and we used to study a total of over 2,000 pages of WT “bible study aids” annually, again, compared to only 200 pages of bible pages, and of those bible pages, most of them are the same scriptures used repeatedly, over and over again, the scriptures which could best highlight or fit (or be made to fit) their doctrines.
... doctrines described to be “truth” yet need changing and adjustments and new understanding all the time.
(And which you cannot question or move forward, or backward on, haha, until they say so. To question is fearful... very frightening, bad, etc... David facing Goliath... we wee worms... like Jacob... like grasshoppers... so unworthy... (yet god loved the world* - insert special WT definition of that world, world - god loved the world so much, that he gave his only begotten son... and he gave us such incredible brains to think with too, lol... but we not supposed to use them too much...)
Well, I digress muchly. Thank you for listening. 😄🤗
...(this comment reposted from an earlier thread, highlighting other aspects from the November 2018 WT study edition:
Muddy Waters
JoinedPosts by Muddy Waters
-
5
Bit of a rant - WT twisting Jesus’ words, (to whom shall we go/ where should we go), etc.
by Muddy Waters inin wt, november 2018 study edition, the wt/ gb again plant the idea about never leaving the religion when they change jesus’ words, as ray franz pointed out in his book, “crisis of consience”, from: “lord, whom shall we go away to?” to, “where else could we go?
?” - as though teachings of decency and love toward others should be found in them only, and in their special places, and not in a person’s own home, or school, or charitable organization, or having hearts filled with love and graciousness, and empathy, compassion.. toward others.... .
they take an ideology (the bible and jehovah) and then make decrees (and commands and doctrines of men) and then bind up heavy loads.... they become pharisees, measuring the tenth of the dill and the mint and the cumin.... and hmm, something else.... ?.
-
-
Muddy Waters
-
29
November 2018 Watchtower study....attacking weak members, their personalities, and apostates
by RULES & REGULATIONS inthe watchtower society always attempts to disprove or discredit valid arguments or statements by criticizing the ability of individuals to think, reason, ask tough questions and make their own decisions!
if they can't logically attack the message, they attack the messenger!!
the name calling of apostates or anyone who doesn't agree with all the wtbts flip-flops ( the light gets brighter) never stops!
-
-
Muddy Waters
And again, WT/ GB plant the idea about leaving (the religion) when they change Jesus’ words, as Ray Franz pointed out in his book, “Crisis of Consience”, from “Lord, WHOM shall we go away to?” to, WHERE else could we go?? - as though teachings of decency and love toward others should be found in only their special place, and not in a person’s own home, or school, or charitable organization, or having hearts filled with love and graciousness, and empathy, compassion.. toward others....
They take an ideology (the bible and Jehovah) and then make decrees (and commands and doctrines of men) and then bind up heavy loads...
they become Pharisees, measuring the tenth of the dill and the mint and the cumin...
and hmm, something else.... ?
... forgetting about love and mercy...?
... is this (gasp!) possible with the leaders, I mean fine examples of our faith, whom we should emulate... blah blah ... and meet at certain exact times in certain exact places wearing certain exact clothes to do certain exact same things ... ?
- is this what JESUS wanted?
He, who said, “where two or three or gathered in my name, there I am...” (a spirit of friendship, love, sharing, and oh, you know, maybe just having a spirit of being guided by LOVE, right?)
Hmm. Imagine that. Is it really so .... simple....?
... especially if...
god is ....
Love....
...
(“And they bind up heavy loads upon the backs of men, teaching commands of men as doctrines...”)
(but certainly not WT/ GB, right...? Not them...)
“... do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the sons of earthling man, with whom there is no salvation...”
”... and Satan himself appears like an angel of light...”
(Hm, personally, that last one is a little dramatic for me, haha, but I’ll put it out there for the seekers or questioners..)
and yes, it is okay to think and judge and ‘test out the inspired expressions” and weigh them out... (remember those Boreans? They don’t talk much about them anymore, do they?) so it’s okay to keep seeking...
... Try to change your vocabulary, they always want you to improve or add to that, don’t they? Try thinking positive words and framing things thru a lens of love, gratitude, caring, forgiveness, etc., rather than the words they use which keep you down, which create fear, obligation, guilt... (fog)
Think of having a question as a way to continue seeking for truth,
rather than the scary, loaded, threatening language and words (seasoned with salt?) of “doubts, independent thinking, giving way to Satan, becoming murmurers, following the path of Korah...” (boy, they do go on & on and get ya, don’t they? Sheesh. 200 pages of bible compared to over 2,000 pages WT literature annually, but that was back in the day...
It would be interesting to recount it now, especially in this digital age, and figure in what amount of digital movies and such they have which now count as “placements”.... (so surreal)
the WT, back in the day, used to subject us to 3 weekly meetings (which they called “seven”) and we used to study a total of over 2,000 pages of WT “bible study aids” annually, again, compared to only 200 pages of bible pages, and of those bible pages, most of them are the same scriptures used repeatedly, over and over again, the scriptures which could best highlight or fit (or be made to fit) their doctrines.
... doctrines described to be “truth” yet need change and adjustments all the time.
Well, I digress muchly. Thank you for listening. 😄🤗
-
3
Heart and Mind Control
by Victor_E ini want to thank all of you for your kind words again.
in my current work in texas of working with parolees and probationers i am humbled by their painful past.
here is another post i wrote some time back for you newcomers.. mind and heart control.
-
-
Muddy Waters
This is awesome, thank you.
I would love to hear the phase of “evolutionl” explained further, this is fascinating, and I resonate with much of what you’ve shared. Thank you again
-
27
Cart witnessing
by Phoebe innot sure if anyone has posted this before but it's just been put on youtube so i guess it's okay to show you??
if not, please delete it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdusnlvjm-k.
-
-
Muddy Waters
This did not look like a Kingdom Hall. It looked like a community Center or such where they have their “get-together’s”. Perhaps someone was moving away and they were having a get-together (this used to be the only times they ever had parties! - when someone was leaving the congregation! .... you had this big party and then you never spoke to the person again, or barely...! You know, such was the “loving brotherhood”... and friends sticking closer than a brother...)
... those poor kids....
... and I couldn’t help thinking/ wondering, has it become okay for sisters to take such a prominent, outspoken role?? Handling microphones (gasp!) and talking directly to the audience??? (more gasp!!!) ... Is this not Jezebel-ish?? ... and is this not even brazen conduct?? (lol! gag!)
My gosh, goodness me.. for sisters to behave so... um.... oh my, what is word... and they seem to be having so much fun... And that one adult sister, in second video, at right, is really getting into the singing, will she perhaps be reproved or counseled afterward?
-
34
New JW phrase: bouquet of truth
by ohnightdivine ini heard it from someone who attended the latest wt study, and quickly posted it with - you guessed it - a picture of a lovely flower bouquet.
.
"how big is your bouquet of truth?".
-
-
Muddy Waters
“... bouquet of truth...”
I guess WT/ GB wants you to think of something sweet smelling, something beautiful, something pretty and to be desired by the eyes (bwhahahaha...!)... something presented in an acceptable and appealing way (more bwhahahaha! lol!!)... a lovely loveliness of delightful odors (like the sweet, “restful” smell of burning flesh offered in sacrifice to the most holy Jehovah....)
... and to pay more than the usual attention to these holy sweet representations of truth - never mind dying horribly at Armageddon if you don’t embrace these bouquets of truths, which change muchly on occasion, like the blood fractions thing, or the generation thing, or the GB/faithful and discreet slave thing.... or a multitude of other things, very important, life-changing things.... like education, choosing a marriage mate, having children, choosing a career... all minor, unimportant things to them in comparison to obedience and submission (humble submission, that is) to the great Gazoo, excuse me, to those taking the lead, and the GB, and so on up the ladder till you reach the great pumpkin that rises out of the pumpkin patch on Halloween night, oop, I mean the great jehovah god the almighty .... (and even Satan doth present himself as an angel of light)...
... but all these bouquets are still “truths” somehow, even cherished errors since we believed them in faith and love and obedience and humble submission... (truly I tell you that those killing you will imagine they are committing a sacred act toward god)... smelling and breathing in these hypnotic, repetitive teachings over and over again, as they repeatedly told us how wonderful were these words, and how appreciative we must be to even hear them, we lowly worms, like Jacob... like grasshoppers....
We to cherish these precious, sweet-smelling bouquets of truth... (and Satan doth present himself as an angel of light.... )
... and though we “not to become worshippers of men” .. nor put our trust in nobles or in the sons of earthling man who have no power of salvation, except the Governing Body, of course. And their sweet bouquets of truth...
.... and then find refreshment for one’s soul.... (and they bind heavy loads upon the shoulders of men.....)...
Well. I wandered and sequeyed (sp?) a bit. Heavy sarcasm, in case anyone needs to be told.
🌷
-
16
Memories from the Edge
by neat blue dog inwhen waking up it often isn't an instant switch, there's a period of time when your conflicted feelings are heightened and most uncomfortable.
can anyone remember specific instances in the time before you fully woke up that made you uncomfortable or guilty, despite you still being a 'believer'?.
i can think of two right now, both about a year or two before i woke up:.
-
-
Muddy Waters
So many moments of doubts and incredibility, yet suppressed and pushed back (for years!) as evil, independent thinking...
But, some of them:
- the allowance of BLOOD FRACTIONS! How did that make sense? What happened to “being faithful in what is least”..? And, not letting “ The little bit of poison from the world taint us/ spot us...”?
- and yes, the REVELATION BOOK, and its constant emphasis on the governing body/ faithful slave, and the nations fearing them and the clergy gnashing their teeth over their glorious, condemnatory proclamations... (I wasn’t aware of any of these JW plagues against our religion, lol)
- and the LOCUS PLAGUE being... JWs? With the witnessing work? This was us? ... climbing over the walls, into the rooftops, etc ... and this was the description or our glorious, sacred, witnessing work? A locust plague??
- and JESUS being the rider on the white horse as the leader (seemingly) of all the hellacious plagues and woes to follow him...
Oh, So much twisted reasoning, so much cognitive dissonance....
- oh yes, and as already mentioned, how we never placed or were taught to specially present BIBLES, always literature.
- and, when In field service, sitting in a coffee shop FULL of people to talk to, yet sitting *silently* at our table “as a Witness”.... Then go back to knocking on empty houses. (What happened to “witnessing in the market place” ....? and how does standing SILENTLY holding up a magazine compare to Paul and Peter’s example.... blah blah blah.
- and why count time in field service anyway? What happened to, “... you received free, give free” and “not let your right hand know what the left is doing” and “not be like those who trumpet their good deeds before others, blah blah” (.... and the time counted never seemed right or accurate or honest...)
- and why NO FINANCIAL TRANSPARENCY ever??
- and why take such shoddy care (read: NON-CARE) of elderly, sick, disabled, etc.? Why so dependent on “Caesar” when so contemptuous of Caesar...?
- and why have TITLES and more titles and special, SECRET BOOKS??
- if meetings are supposed to be so refreshing, why did I not feel refreshed??
- and the scripture from Ecclesiastes something: “...to the making of many books, there is no end, and the pursuit of them is wearying to the flesh.” So, hmmmmmm....
...
Geez... it took a lot for me to wake up..... 👀😢👀
-
31
Don't give them 2019
by snare&racket ini am writing the post i have wanted to write for some time.
it's a heartfelt note to those still attending meetings, still caught between the lines of watchtower and the world.
those with kids or a spouse in the society..... despite being mentally out....those who have weighed up that there is too much to lose in leaving.
-
-
Muddy Waters
Awesome, thank you.
-
-
-
Muddy Waters
- The life of the fleshly organism
- loose conduct / brazen conduct
- fornication / porneia
- make the truth your own
- kiss the son lest God be angry, and you-ooo perish in the way....
- Dark days are here! Man lives in fear! Wickedness is alllll around...
- bounteous blessings
- Jehovah’s favour
- read the Day’s text
- guard your heart (your treacherous, deceptive heart)
- Jehovah and his organization
- Jehovah and his spirit-directed-organization
- Jehovah and his faithful & discrete slave
- turn in your field service reports
- make Jehovah’s heart glad
- in the new system
- this old system
- this old, dying, decaying world
- worldly people
- higher education
- secular employment
- what do we do with our recreation time
- give your full attention to the next talk/ next speaker ...
- how happy are we to...
- serve Jehovah
- loyal love
- render the marital due
- be in submission
- God loves a cheerful giver
- are you making sacrifices for the Kingdom
- special pioneer / regular pioneer / auxiliary pioneer
- exemplary
- dress and grooming
- conduct
- forms of recreation and entertainment
- meeting attendance, prayer, study, service, good association
- example to the flock
- disfellowshipped/ disassociated
- spiritually weak
- drifting away
- lukewarm/ be spit out
- cast into the lake of fire
- dead with no resurrection hope
- sinning against the spirit
- kicking against the goads
- gnashing of teeth
- despicable thing (causing desolation)
- working what is obscene
- guard the tongue/ guard your hearts
- be wise my son
- and they will know that a prophet was in their midst
- the Great and Fear-Inspiring Day of Jehovah God the Almighty
- utterance
- proclamation
- judgment message
- consider these things, ponder these things
- imitate their faith
- glorious ones
- humble yourselves
- obey, obey, obey, etc., and *probably* you *may* get saved...
...
Geez, I could go on and on... I guess I really was paying more than the usual attention all those dreary years.....
-
5
Great video! Essential oil cults and the similarity to religious groups
by stuckinarut2 inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsdriasvgtq.
this is a great video- well worth watching.. it shows how a multi-level marketing group that peddles psydo-science can be compared to a religious group..
-
-
Muddy Waters
Ha, as a JW, we did enter a MLM scheme, not thinking it was a scheme, but one of the things which helped me wake up, was seeing the similarities between them!
.... giant sales meetings with same motivational talks, emotional manipulation, comparisons in presentations, sales figures and promotional products (magazine placements, bible studies).... so much is the same.
-
35
Sometimes it's the little things....
by dubstepped ini'm listening to a podcast where a former elder describes how another elder conducted the watchtower study about hyperbole.
the elder called it hyper-bowl.
soon the whole congregation called it hyper-bowl.
-
-
Muddy Waters
One word which stands out for me is the name describing the language of the Philippines, Tagalog.
Having known a Sister from the Philippines, she educated me on the proper pronunciation of her language, taGAH-lug. (NOT “Tag-a-log”, as most brothers would say from the Platform....)